Posted by Mahesh
It is not that i , myself am fully in agreement with
such system. That is why i call it experiemnt. It may
fail miserably. Or it may succeed. The two points you
talked about are true too. But here are my reasons:
1) Even if govt machinery can have better
intelligence, question is "do we have access to it?".
As people/citizen of this country, do we have access
to intelligence of govt? We wont..so for people we
should have people centeric intelligence.
2) Terrorist may have what ever problems, we (as
people of this country) can't solve it. We have to
worry about what is happenign to us. And what is
happening is, we are dying.
Also, i agree that there'r better options.
Perticularly,
1 (joining politics) and 3 (forming parallel
military).
We need to think more on the system. Family is
responsibility. I think i can take any risk, exactly
because i have family. If i would have been alone, i
would have have tried to risk myself for someone else.
Now, what inspires me is safety of my family.
Tuesday, October 17, 2006
My Thoughts
Posted by Ravi
On the onset, let me make it clear that I admire and respect anybody’s strive to come up with a solution. Any success to the system like this means my child will live in better and safer world, and for that reason alone, I can commit time, energy, and money for a cause like this. I also admit that being skeptical is very easy; on the other hand, we always need the optimistic leaders who have got passion and enough support to achieve highly difficult tasks like this.
Having said that, I must say, very sincerely, that I am not convinced on the feasibility of the idea and that the passionate people should spend time in following it. Not that it really matters if one person is not convinced; but following are my reasons, if you care:
1. You would agree that the intelligent system like the one you envision can better be achieved by the organizations like intelligent agencies, police, government. Because, obviously enough, they have right infrastructure, right network, right authorities. You may argue that these organizations are biased. Yeah, they may be; but that’s our fate. If you want to do something, change them to become unbiased, change them to become effective, change them be become better. Hence I like the other option you mentioned in your first mail of joining the politics.
2. I sincerely believe and you would agree that trying to stop the terrorists’ activities without trying to understand the reason behind those is like attacking the symptom and not the root cause. I believe the terrorism is a symptom of some root cause that probably we don’t understand well. For example, a certain community, as per their scripture, believe that they should expand their species all over the world by conquering the land. Now, clearly this belief is not in harmony with nature. This is one out of probably hundred causes that we don’t know of. As another example: there was a program on TV called “India Times Enclave”. Musharraf was answering the questions related the Kashmir . The questions were being asked by Indian high profile businessmen, journalists, actors, politicians, sportsmen. What I observed in Musharraf’s answers that he and his people truly believe that a certain part of Kashmir belongs to them. I am not pro-Mussharraf or anti-Indian, but the point is that they believe that the Kashmir is theirs as mush as we believe that Kashmir is ours. If we both hold our premises and try to solve the problem, I don’t see how the problem can be solved and how terrorism can be prevented. One easy way to solve the Kashmir issue is to do an all-out war. Gone the days of Roman emperors, in the modern times of ours, nobody wins in a war, everybody looses. A better way to solve the Kashmir issue is to increase the financial, educational, cultural ties. Make those mostly uneducated fanatics understand that there is more value in such ties than fighting over the land. This will take time; but I believe it will work, and I think that’s the stand India is taking, and I think the situation is improving every passing year.
The above point # 2 kind of got a bit deviated (though very important and true), and I understand that terrorism is a problem we would want to try to counter as soon as possible otherwise we risk the lives of our nears and dears. So from that point of view, and because you believe the idea will work, you can count me in. I will be “disagree but committed”. Or better even, come up with other more convincing ideas. By the way, the best thing about your original idea is that it appears relatively easy to realize. Some other obvious ideas come to my mind, but those all are difficult to achieve and are very demanding and long term in nature, and I know I can’t work on those ideas, I am sorry! That’s another reason, I would follow your idea. The ideas I am talking about are (and these are very obvious, by the way):
1. Join politics, influence the systems like police, government to do right things. (This is very long term, needs passion, skills, and a lot. This will yield best results).
2. Create a network, spot some Muslims that we think have modern and right conscience and who share our thoughts. Use them to influence other uneducated and fanatic Pakistanis to understand that terrorism is wrong.
3. Hope (or try) that “Chatrapati” (he could be among us) emerges back and leads us to fight the terrorism using “ganimi kava”. (This is exciting, 3-4 years back I would have thought of following such leader, not any more. I have family - worried of them, and don’t think have enough guts).
On the onset, let me make it clear that I admire and respect anybody’s strive to come up with a solution. Any success to the system like this means my child will live in better and safer world, and for that reason alone, I can commit time, energy, and money for a cause like this. I also admit that being skeptical is very easy; on the other hand, we always need the optimistic leaders who have got passion and enough support to achieve highly difficult tasks like this.
Having said that, I must say, very sincerely, that I am not convinced on the feasibility of the idea and that the passionate people should spend time in following it. Not that it really matters if one person is not convinced; but following are my reasons, if you care:
1. You would agree that the intelligent system like the one you envision can better be achieved by the organizations like intelligent agencies, police, government. Because, obviously enough, they have right infrastructure, right network, right authorities. You may argue that these organizations are biased. Yeah, they may be; but that’s our fate. If you want to do something, change them to become unbiased, change them to become effective, change them be become better. Hence I like the other option you mentioned in your first mail of joining the politics.
2. I sincerely believe and you would agree that trying to stop the terrorists’ activities without trying to understand the reason behind those is like attacking the symptom and not the root cause. I believe the terrorism is a symptom of some root cause that probably we don’t understand well. For example, a certain community, as per their scripture, believe that they should expand their species all over the world by conquering the land. Now, clearly this belief is not in harmony with nature. This is one out of probably hundred causes that we don’t know of. As another example: there was a program on TV called “India Times Enclave”. Musharraf was answering the questions related the Kashmir . The questions were being asked by Indian high profile businessmen, journalists, actors, politicians, sportsmen. What I observed in Musharraf’s answers that he and his people truly believe that a certain part of Kashmir belongs to them. I am not pro-Mussharraf or anti-Indian, but the point is that they believe that the Kashmir is theirs as mush as we believe that Kashmir is ours. If we both hold our premises and try to solve the problem, I don’t see how the problem can be solved and how terrorism can be prevented. One easy way to solve the Kashmir issue is to do an all-out war. Gone the days of Roman emperors, in the modern times of ours, nobody wins in a war, everybody looses. A better way to solve the Kashmir issue is to increase the financial, educational, cultural ties. Make those mostly uneducated fanatics understand that there is more value in such ties than fighting over the land. This will take time; but I believe it will work, and I think that’s the stand India is taking, and I think the situation is improving every passing year.
The above point # 2 kind of got a bit deviated (though very important and true), and I understand that terrorism is a problem we would want to try to counter as soon as possible otherwise we risk the lives of our nears and dears. So from that point of view, and because you believe the idea will work, you can count me in. I will be “disagree but committed”. Or better even, come up with other more convincing ideas. By the way, the best thing about your original idea is that it appears relatively easy to realize. Some other obvious ideas come to my mind, but those all are difficult to achieve and are very demanding and long term in nature, and I know I can’t work on those ideas, I am sorry! That’s another reason, I would follow your idea. The ideas I am talking about are (and these are very obvious, by the way):
1. Join politics, influence the systems like police, government to do right things. (This is very long term, needs passion, skills, and a lot. This will yield best results).
2. Create a network, spot some Muslims that we think have modern and right conscience and who share our thoughts. Use them to influence other uneducated and fanatic Pakistanis to understand that terrorism is wrong.
3. Hope (or try) that “Chatrapati” (he could be among us) emerges back and leads us to fight the terrorism using “ganimi kava”. (This is exciting, 3-4 years back I would have thought of following such leader, not any more. I have family - worried of them, and don’t think have enough guts).
How to use the system
Posted by Mahesh
See the system will never tell where the attack is going to happen.
(or is it? If system is sufficiently complex and there really is some
hidden patter to catch? Magic :) ). Anyway, the use of system is for
analysis of attacks and making the information available at one place.
There are social engineering methods to find out who is who. I read
some analysis on 9/11 hijackers. They created simple map with
connectivity among people. The one who has most connections is master
mind ! If all the data is at one place and you have graphic tools
available to plot them in various ways. You will see, who is connected
to who and how !!!
See the system will never tell where the attack is going to happen.
(or is it? If system is sufficiently complex and there really is some
hidden patter to catch? Magic :) ). Anyway, the use of system is for
analysis of attacks and making the information available at one place.
There are social engineering methods to find out who is who. I read
some analysis on 9/11 hijackers. They created simple map with
connectivity among people. The one who has most connections is master
mind ! If all the data is at one place and you have graphic tools
available to plot them in various ways. You will see, who is connected
to who and how !!!
Interesting topic
Posted by Atul
This is interesting topic.
I wanted to post some points in this thread but office-work is
killing me.
Anyways, let me try to put it though am in hurry.. please excuse for
typos if any...
If we expecting people to enter data about terrorists after they
attacks somewhere, then this data could be available to us even by
searching net. Coz terrorist attacks is not small thing and comes on
net in the form of news or so. However, info about terrorists involved
is again a questions ! Nobody still knows who was actually involved in
1993 blasts.
But if we assuming here that:
"People will know about existance of terrorists around them"
Then I really doubt if this holds true. Because as long as I know,
for common man, its very difficult to identify person involved in
terrorist activities. Terrorist plans are pretty transperant to comman
man. People comes to know only when police kills/caught those
terrorists. And I believe police gets this info by detectives who gets paid for
it and so detectives would least bother to publish anywhere on net, the
info they are having. Sometimes even detectives also fails to foil the
plan and they (terrorists) succeeds !
I've heard of incidences where gangsters were staying in apartments
as common man (I think in Kolhapur district itself) and kids even use
to play with them. Everyone come to know about their reality only
when police encountered them !!
In case of recent incidents, police raided and arrested few guys
(terrorists) with RDX somewhere in Marathwada.
The leader was local guy, but has been found connected with
terrorists network. Till that time people around him was knowing him as
"nice and gentle" guy !!
Also, I believe more dangerous than terrorists are those people who
co-operates them. In recent blasts, it is strongly suspected that
without local citizens (Gaddaars) co-operation, such a nasty
operation is impossible.
Finding traces of their network is real challenge, even agencies in
US also not able to achieve. They even don't communicate on phones or
even direct emails. Because they know they can be traced out easily
by that. Last I heard was Al-Quayda network uses images containing
encrypted msgs.
We gotta consider these.
This is interesting topic.
I wanted to post some points in this thread but office-work is
killing me.
Anyways, let me try to put it though am in hurry.. please excuse for
typos if any...
If we expecting people to enter data about terrorists after they
attacks somewhere, then this data could be available to us even by
searching net. Coz terrorist attacks is not small thing and comes on
net in the form of news or so. However, info about terrorists involved
is again a questions ! Nobody still knows who was actually involved in
1993 blasts.
But if we assuming here that:
"People will know about existance of terrorists around them"
Then I really doubt if this holds true. Because as long as I know,
for common man, its very difficult to identify person involved in
terrorist activities. Terrorist plans are pretty transperant to comman
man. People comes to know only when police kills/caught those
terrorists. And I believe police gets this info by detectives who gets paid for
it and so detectives would least bother to publish anywhere on net, the
info they are having. Sometimes even detectives also fails to foil the
plan and they (terrorists) succeeds !
I've heard of incidences where gangsters were staying in apartments
as common man (I think in Kolhapur district itself) and kids even use
to play with them. Everyone come to know about their reality only
when police encountered them !!
In case of recent incidents, police raided and arrested few guys
(terrorists) with RDX somewhere in Marathwada.
The leader was local guy, but has been found connected with
terrorists network. Till that time people around him was knowing him as
"nice and gentle" guy !!
Also, I believe more dangerous than terrorists are those people who
co-operates them. In recent blasts, it is strongly suspected that
without local citizens (Gaddaars) co-operation, such a nasty
operation is impossible.
Finding traces of their network is real challenge, even agencies in
US also not able to achieve. They even don't communicate on phones or
even direct emails. Because they know they can be traced out easily
by that. Last I heard was Al-Quayda network uses images containing
encrypted msgs.
We gotta consider these.
Access to general public
Posted by Mahesh
4 Kind of access modes can be kept.
1) Web
2) SMS
3) Phones
4) Postcard
out of which 1 and 2 can be handled automatically by system.
For 3 and 4 we'll have to dedicate our time. So for initial
stages, 1 and 2 are good option.
4 Kind of access modes can be kept.
1) Web
2) SMS
3) Phones
4) Postcard
out of which 1 and 2 can be handled automatically by system.
For 3 and 4 we'll have to dedicate our time. So for initial
stages, 1 and 2 are good option.
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